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I've always made the observation that CA salmon (central valley runs at least) is a nonexistent, artificial fishery, and yet I find people tend to hear and see what they want to.


The 20th Century has been a prolonged death scene for far more than any one genus of vertabrate, brother ...

Scott Parker

Hmm. I've never caught a salmon... and it seems from the way things are going that perhaps I never will (in central CA at least).
I'm of mixxed opinion on whether or not to fish for what are left,
although I probabally will not do so. On the one hand the season
is open, while on the other hand every fish caught contributes to
the decline of the species... I think that for many it pushes them
into a "get it while the gettin's good" type of mentality.


Scott, fishing for them is contributing to the decline of the species? LOL, shopping at safeway, driving to work, reading the newspaper and turning on your computer is contributing to the decline of the species. They're not declining; they're gone, and have been for some time now. If not for the hatchery fish, you would not see a one. People always talk about how some day the salmon will come back. I challenge them there and then, pointing to the green murk of the bay and dare them to look at it, and see. They will never come back, mark my words, if we fail to address the water issues at the core of our fisheries decline. This is an artifical put and take fishery, like planters Lake Chabot on a massive scale. Disgusting.

Equally disgusting is this drive to eradicate "non natives" that can adapt to the unique characteristics of San Francisco bay. Racism applied to fish essentially, by tree huggers and fools.


Interesting closing point, Alan. Though invasive species can unquestionably harm ecosystems which are still "pristine", they can also definitely fill vacant niches in ecosystems already compromised by human activity - and, really, what ecosystem doesn't fall into that latter category? Perhaps the question shouldn't be whether a species is "native" to an ecosystem; perhaps the question should be whether or not it's "appropriate" to that ecosystem. And improving water quality through the promotion of riparian buffers should definitely be the higher priority.

Scott Parker

So there is no natural salmon fishery in CA anymore? Sorry,
perhaps my ignorance of the finer details of this fishery is
showing and I apologize. As for fishing contributing to the
decline of salmon... if there is no natural fishery left, then
I don't know what to say because it's already a moot point.

Good point Finesmell! Invasive doesn't necessarily mean harmful
(see our local littleneck and their association with Manilla
clams...) That is a really good thought on an approach for
estimating invasive species impact and should be considered more
fully by those who make policy on these types of issues. Of course,
our legislature would probabally hire somebody from the oil or
agriculture industry to do the study...


I'd say species that have coexisted for over a century with no visible ill effects on native species would qualify as "appropriate", no? Yet in the name of ecology, I fear some kind of "ethnic cleansing" is in the works. Indeed the promotion of riparian buffers would begin to address some of the core issues in the slow death of the bay, but it is easier for the powers that be to play us fishermen against each other.

Scott, I don't know what to say either. Whether or not a wild fishery exists is a point of contention. You know my view, now seek the opinion of others and form your own opinion. What is certain is that there is practically no successful natural reproduction happening. Take that as you will. The hatchery fish have now shown a record low return rate; out of millions released (I'm sure Kirk can dig up the exact numbers), just how many come back? The over two hundred guys in benicia brought in 4 fish yesterday, Scott.


And that was a good day.

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